Paul McCartney:
Good evening, Mr Frost.

David Frost:
Good evening, Mr McCartney. Why don’t you think that the critics liked this film?

Paul McCartney:
I don’t know, you know. They just didn’t seem to like it. I quite liked it myself.

David Frost:
Well, I liked it. I didn’t see it last night because I was busy, but I saw it today, and I liked it… I mean, with reservations and so on. But why were people so puzzled by it?

Paul McCartney:
I think they thought it was ‘bitty,’ which it was a bit. You know, but it was supposed to be like that. I think a lot of people were looking for a plot, and there wasn’t one.

David Frost:
I saw it in colour. That sort of helped, too.

Paul McCartney:
We thought we could just do a thing… See, we’ve been waiting for a couple of years now to make another feature film. And we’ve been asking people to write stories and write plots. But nobody’s come up with one, you know. So we thought, ‘We’ll do something which isn’t like that,’ which isn’t like a real film in as much as it’s got a story and a beginning, and we’ll just do a selection of, you know… We’d put together a lot of things that we like the look of, and see what happens. I liked it.

David Frost:
Did you have a point in mind when you, I mean, some point to get across at all when you did this?

Paul McCartney:
No. See, that’s the trouble, seriously. You gotta do everything with a point or an aim, but we tried this one without anything, with no point and no aim. It’s like, you know, we make a record album and all the songs don’t necessarily have to fit in with each other, you know. They’re just a selection of songs. But when you go to make a film, I don’t know, you seem to have to have a thread to pull it all together. We thought that doing a mystery tour, you know – it’s all happening on a bus to this group of people – would be enough of a thread. And then, calling it a magical mystery tour, which – like a firm advertises a magical mystery tour, and you go on it, and it really is magic – then anything might happen, and it wouldn’t have a thread if it was magic.

David Frost:
What’s the difference between what you were trying to do here, and say, if you took an EP – which most people have of Magical Mystery Tour – and played that while looking at a kaleidoscope?

Paul McCartney:
Yeah.

David Frost:
What’s the difference between that and what you did? I mean, was that what you were trying to do?

Paul McCartney:
That’s the thing, you know, that there’s no real difference between that – except that we had people in the kaleidoscope, and we had things happening. But, I mean, it’s not really all that disconnected. The trouble is, that, er, if you watch it a second time it does grow on you. And this is one thing we forgot, because when you make a record, a lot of people listen to our records and say, ‘Well, I don’t like that one,’ you know. But the second time ’round they say, ‘Not bad.’ And after a few plays they say…

David Frost:
Well, now the BBC are going to show it seventeen times. Just sign the thing today.

Paul McCartney:
Yeah!

David Frost:
Is the fact that it didn’t get across to a lot of people, does that fact alter your opinion of it? Do you say, ‘Right. It seems to have failed?’ Or do you still think it’s precisely as good as if people had said it was very good?

Paul McCartney:
Yeah. I think it’s as good as I always thought it was. But when we were making it, I think all of us thought, ‘This has got a very thin plot. We hope this idea of doing a thing without a plot works, because the one thing we’re gonna be able to say is, it hasn’t got a plot.’ But yeah. We thought, ‘You don’t need a plot. You don’t always need one.’ Because, like, the things you did today probably didn’t have much of a plot.

David Frost:
Oh, I was plotting all day. But no, I can see it. Would you call it a success or a failure today?

Paul McCartney:
Er, it’s both. You know, it’s a success failure. You can’t say it was a success, you know, ’cause the papers didn’t like it. And that seems to be what people read to find out what’s a success. But I think it’s alright. I think the next one will be a lot better, and it will have a fat plot, as opposed to a thin plot.

David Frost:
But, I mean, what is success then? How would you define that?

Paul McCartney:
I don’t know. I wouldn’t try. I suppose, you know, I don’t know how many people liked it who saw it.

David Frost:
How many people here liked it?

Paul McCartney:
There’s a few, you know. It wasn’t much of a success!

David Frost:
They like you much more than they liked it, you see. But I mean, [to the audience] you better watch it again and again on BBC.

Paul McCartney:
Seventeen times.

David Frost:
Can it be a success when people don’t like it?

Paul McCartney:
It obviously matters. If this morning, we’d awoke to find fantastic reviews then we would have all said, ‘It’s a success.’ And I wouldn’t have been on tonight, David. But it doesn’t matter all that much, ’cause people said about two of our records, like ’Strawbverry Fields Forever’  och ’I Am The Walrus ’ to name but two. They said, ‘Those are terrible,’ you know, ‘You can’t talk about let your knickers down on telly. You can’t do it.’ But you can, you know. I’ve just done it! And it’s alright, you know. Because, in about a year or two, these things that didn’t look like successes will look a bit more like successes… you know, as people get into that kind of thing.

Paul McCartney:
Yeah. Of course, you know. The human race is fantastic, but what the human race does, I’m not always so keen on that as I used to be.

David Frost:
How do you mean?

Paul McCartney:
Well, the human race does some fantastic things, and that’s another programme.

David Frost:
Well, we’ll get it into this one.

Paul McCartney:
OK, well, you know the kind of thing I mean. Before you come into showbiz, you tend to think ‘It’s great, it’s fantastic,’ and ‘That’s my aim in life is to be rich and famous,’ and you can’t see much more beyond that, you know. But, once you’re rich and famous, you start to wonder what it is you’re actually doing. It can be disappointing if you suddenly realise that everyone is fighting and everyone is messing it up generally, for themselves, folks. I don’t blame ya ’cause I do it too. But we got to get together on this thing, David.

David Frost:
What did you decide, when you were rich and famous, was the point of what you were doing?

Paul McCartney:
The point? I can’t see a point. I think the point is just to do it to the best of your ability. Do it as best as you can, you know, and to try and help. That’s the only point I can see is just to try and help yourself and others. It sounds very christian, and it is.

David Frost:
What are people doing to ‘mess things up’?

Paul McCartney:
For a kickoff, people still believe that thing about ‘We gotta fight, because if we don’t fight, they’ll fight us.’ And so everyone keeps the myth of war going. It’s a bit silly because they’re killing each other off and fighting and shooting. And then, all the little follow-ups to that kind of thought.

David Frost:
It always strikes me that, while you’re associated with all these new movements that come up, or whether people call them Flower Power, or whatever, that you, particularly, tend to become impatient with simplified vague explanations, like the phrase ‘Make love not war,’ for instance.

Paul McCartney:
I don’t mind the slogans that come out of it as long as they’re good ones, like ‘Make love not war.’ It is over-simplified, but slogans have to be.

David Frost:
To what extent do you feel responsible for the effects that you can have on people in the sense that they’ll do what you say? I mean, the obvious example is when you say something about LSD or something, people are slightly more likely to do what you say.

Paul McCartney:
I don’t feel responsible because I’m always a bit suspicious of people who say they’re responsible, because they’re not really straight ordinary people. It always seems to be a politician getting up and saying ‘These boys are responsible for the nations morals.’ And he says ‘I am, and we’ll do our best when we get in if you’ll let us.’ And when they get in, they don’t. And they’re not really responsible. People that say they’re responsible always cop out on responsibility. So I don’t feel really responsible. But at the same time I don’t want to hinder things.

David Frost:
For instance, when you said the thing, I know it’s months old…

Paul McCartney:
No no, these people – they asked me. You know, that was the trouble. They said to me, ‘Have you ever had LSD?’ And I said, ‘Er, yes.’ And that was it, you know. And it was a big newspaper story, and I was made to look as though I’d said to the whole nation, ‘Take LSD,’ you know. And I haven’t. I just said, ‘Yes, I’ve taken it.’ And, er, maybe it would’ve been better if I’d said, ‘No, I haven’t.’ But maybe it would have also been better if they hadn’t have asked me.

David Frost:
Right. And what would you say now to the young people in this audience about drugs?

Paul McCartney:
Don’t bother, you know. There’s not much point. There’s no need for drugs, but there’s no need for a lot of things. There’s no need for alcohol either, and you know, it goes on and on. You can’t just say drugs, because when you say drugs you gotta say ‘And also don’t drink whiskey,’ and you sound like one of these fellas who says it! And I’m not, you know.

David Frost:
Is there anything else that, if you ran into some of your contemporaries in Liverpool, is there anything with the fantastically special life you’ve had in the last five years that you’ve learned that you could tell them, that they might not realise about?

Paul McCartney:
Umm… I don’t know, really. There’s a lot of hints I could offer. I don’t know whether they’d take ’em, because I don’t think I’d have ever taken ’em. Hints about if you’re trying to make money. A lot of people don’t realise how easy it is, because a lot of people work there, with the boss there, and they’re satisfied to do that.

David Frost:
How is it easy to make money?

Paul McCartney:
Well, you know.

David Frost:
But, I mean, I wouldn’t have said ‘easy.’ That’s the difference.

Paul McCartney:
I think that I always found it difficult to make money when I wasn’t being myself. I really found it – ’cause I was being the fella in that position – that’s what I thought I had to be. But I never realised that, in fact, you want the fella in this position to be himself, and not to say ‘Yes, that’s jolly good.’ You want him to say, ‘Well look, I’ve got a good idea for this.’

David Frost:
Yeah, but are bosses as lovely as that?

Paul McCartney:
No. And that brings you to good bosses, because they should do the same thing. They don’t realise it either.

David Frost:
The difference is that you and I are in areas like television or music or whatever where there isn’t a great organization and a great system, and sort of individual people with ideas that lead to the way for them to express their ideas. But there may not be that in, for instance, the police force or in the garment industry.

Paul McCartney:
Yeah, well, OK. I can only speak for my bit of it. I can tell them how to make money in entertainment.

David Frost:
What about the rest? Anything else other than the money side?

Paul McCartney:
Right now, the only advice is the one that I’ve always had: to always be meself.

David Frost:
And another thing: you don’t take advice, do you? I mean, you…

Paul McCartney:
Well, because the advice is often to not be yourself, you know. It’s like the show last night. The advice really, if we had taken it, after today’s Trib would’ve been, ‘You get a good choreographer, lads. A good director, producer. And get a lot of money behind ya, and we’ll have 5,000 dancing girls, and we’ll have you hanging from a Christmas tree. And it’ll be great because it’ll be…’ and it’s true, it would have been safe and set and everything. But we thought ‘We’ll try it our way, and if it doesn’t work…’ It doesn’t matter too much that it wasn’t the success that we’d hoped, you know, for that reason. Because still, at least we were able to be ourselves. And do what we thought was right.

David Frost:
And what you think is right, next time, may be different as a result of this experience.

Paul McCartney:
Yeah, but that’s the only way you can learn, you know. If we’d learned by putting ourselves in someone else’s hands and then letting them say, ‘We’ve got to do the vaudeville here, then it isn’t us doing it. And that’s the point of what we’ve done. You know, we’ve always just made records according to how we thought they should have been made, and alot of people said, ‘Well, that’s not the way they’re doing it now.’ And we said, “We’ll carry on and do ’em like this, and see if you like ’em when you get used to ’em.’ And it’s worked.